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The thing with D (1 Comments)

Posted: Saturday, 2009-11-21 10:31 | Tags: Programming, Site, Giga, Atlantis, Releases, Indiana, Grail


Some of you might already know, I experienced some severe/general problems with D compilers lately, namingly I ran into a situation where I was not able to find a D compiler(version) that would have no compiler bugs that influenced indiana and would run with phobos/d1. Another constraint was that we need one compiler on windows and one on linux (preferrably x86_64), both naturally being able to compile & link the same code.

I wont get in any further detail here, I just say: I really tried for about 2 full days and at least 8 compiler versions on 3 different platforms and I came to the conclusion that these were my options:

  • An old version of gdc I used until then had only one compiler bug that nulled a pointer in some circumstances, rendering "only" the serialization module (and thus the whole savegame system) unusable. I could have tried to stick with the old version and ship the code around the bug.
  • llvmdc would have been interesting to try, unfortunately it doesn't seem to support phobos, so for this maybe-solution a switch to tango or at least tangobos would have been necessary.
  • Take the newest available gdc/dmd and fix indiana that seemed to actually lay behind the current D1.0 "stable" language definition so the compilers would work with it. Note that the most current gdc releases (from sourceforge/goshaw) both couldnt even build phobos correctly (at least that day).
  • Do a complete rewrite in a different language with more stable toolchain.

I decided for the last one for a lot of reasons:

  • The incident that GDC didn't receive updates for at least a year (or so) while DMD did shows that the D community is not yet "mature"/"stable"/"big" whatever you wanna call it. I wouldn't call the D community "unreliable", but at least for gdc you never know what you get.
  • A complete rewrite offers some interesting opportunities of restructuring the code, kicking some old mistakes that werent worth the effort to do it up to now.
  • When I started with indiana in D, I didn't plan the lua part from the beginning, now when rewriting I can keep it in mind and/or do it on the way.

So which language did I choose?

Well it had to be a language that runs at least on windows and linux, allowed relatively easy usage of SDL and lua on those platforms, could somehow produce binaries for easy distribution on windows and needless to say that I'm now looking for a big community.

This, and my knowledge of languages in mind (learning a complete new one would cost lots of additional time), there weren't many options:

  • C#/other .NET stuff, possible, but I'm really not experienced with it, nor do I have knowledge about how reliable the linux toolchain is, how easy you can bind to SDL etc...
  • Java: No wai. For a "dynamic" language the syntax is way too clumsy, distribution of small binaries isnt possible (at least not that I know of), performance can be a problem. Plus a personal dislike + lacking experience ;)
  • Python: Confessed, I like python. Naturally with python I wouldn't have built a lua interface, I'd just have the games be written in python. The windows executable would be made with py2exe, which afaik just stuffs the complete python interpreter and all libraries into one big exe file. All in all, a good candidate, development speed has been always fast in python (at least for me), but definetely we would run into performance problems sooner or later and thus would need to have some parts in C/pyrex/whatever.
  • C++: There you are. Long time I ran around and told people: The only reason for choosing C++ over D is popularity/interfacing with existing code. I still believe so (except for some little language parts maybe), but this is all about community, so no need to lie to myself here. Also it might not be too hard to find a few helpers when I feel I need them.

So what happens next?

At the moment I'm coding what I will call "grail" (you know, the holy grail from indiana jones III / last crusade) in C++ right along with lua support. I'm not sure yet what I will do about the gui part (ie if I just alter atlantis to generate lua-code, if I extend it to be a more full-fledged editor, or if I build something new).

But one way or another in the end there will be

  • libgrail - Similar to what indiana is now, just in C++. This will theoretically allow you to build your adventure games directly in C++ without using/linking lua at all, although regarding documentation and "making it easy/fun to use", I'll focus on the runtime first as I think most game developers will rather use lua than C++.
  • grail-runtime - A binary application that takes a game as input and runs it. Where a game is a directory full of lua code, graphics, sounds, etc... Naturally later on it will be possible to stuff the game into a zipfile and append it to the grail-runtime so you can distribute you game in a single binary. Also I'm thinking about an open lua interface that developers can enable, so you (or the gui) can control the engine while it is running allowing cool debugging/testing things.
  • The GUI, as said, I'm not sure yet what it will be. Maybe not much more than atlantis is now (for first at least), just that it generates lua code. Maybe a full-fledged visionaire/wintermute - like editing system that does most of the work you have to do.

Later, I'll put up my grail git directory, don't judge me for the code yet, it has been a while since I did real c++ coding. And naturally at this state you can't expect something to look at really. When I have it that far that a character can walk around again, I'll post some screenies and inform you!